Dickie Mint

Posts: 584
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Posted At: 06/11/2008 18:34:25
Searching the threads the subject of a possible Salmonella infection from using re-useable carrier bags was touched on.
It worries me that all Supermarkets, including now Morrisons, do not wrap raw meat anymore, but still insist on wrapping raw meat in clingwrapped trays. Frequently the blood oozes out from this inefficient sealing.
This, if not separately wrapped is a sealed bag, could surely lead to cross contamination?
Also some damp foods leave the bag damp.
Are there any EHOs on this forum who can comment?
I did email my local council Environmental Health Dept. but have not yet received a reply.
With a son in the catering trade, the EHOs are very hot on separating food types in kitchens. Does the same principal not apply to our shopping bags?
Richard
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Woof603

Posts: 1508
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Posted At: 06/11/2008 19:15:37
I've been using carrier bags made of canvas for the last year and a half with no problems. If they get soiled I just throw them in the washing machine with the rest of my stuff. I do keep a large heavy plastic bag inside one of them for frozen and meat items just in case and if some thing leaks I just wash it out or put it in the washer with the others. No real danger if you keep them reasonably clean.
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Andyoptic

Posts: 3815
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Posted At: 07/11/2008 17:07:41
Yes , there is a very significant health hazard unless they are washed in hot soapy water. Cross contamination of the type you mention is very easy.
Now, here is the real environmental joke .... It is MUCH more environmentally friendly to chuck a plastic bag away (preferrably filled with rubbish like I do) than to wash it with hot soapy water. No comparison whatsoever.
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Anagran

Posts: 783
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Posted At: 08/11/2008 18:57:26
If you want to keep your perishable foods separate you could try my method: I collect a few extra plastic food bags from the dispenser in the fruit and veg area first and then use them to add extra protection around meat/frozen food or anything else as required.
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Andyoptic

Posts: 3815
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Posted At: 08/11/2008 19:55:49
Absolutely, great idea, but according to Golden Gordon and the like, you are destroying the planet while looking after your family's health. I know which comes first in my mind.
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paulontheroad

Posts: 206
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Posted At: 09/11/2008 23:43:12
Of course, if you don't use plastic bags to put rubbish in wheelie bins, Gordon will make sure you are punished. So you have to buy plastic rubbish sacks if you can't get supermarket bags. Another money making scheme that does nothing for the environment?
British supermarket bags are naff anyway - they've got holes in. Is this because it's only the British who are stupid enough to put them over their heads? France has just about stopped using supermarket bags altogether, so I use the veg bags. Spain is much more sensible - business as usual.
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Andyoptic

Posts: 3815
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Posted At: 10/11/2008 09:44:59
Paul, you summarise perfectly. Many of the people out there use the plastic bags to keep their houses clean and in good order. This keeps smells from their bins, etc. How does this type of government respond ? Punish , punish, punish , punish.
Calvanistic in the extreme and I am completely fed up with it.
A quick tip on how to get your recyling figures improved? When you wash stuff out (eg milk bottles) then do not let them drain well. Water adds enormously to the recyle weight and it is recyclable after all.
I wonder how many years in jail I could get for telling you that? Something under the anti terror laws I expect.
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Dickie Mint

Posts: 584
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Posted At: 10/11/2008 11:45:41
If you want to keep your perishable foods separate you could try my method: I collect a few extra plastic food bags from the dispenser in the fruit and veg area first and then use them to add extra protection around meat/frozen food or anything else as required.
Yes we now do this. Trouble is they're too small and have holes in. Irony is that Morrisons still have the proper plastic bags at the tills, and if you ask they will wrap the food. Some months back I remember complimenting a new cashier on properly wrapping raw meat. She replied that it was part of the training that they were made aware of the Food Hygiene Act!
Obviously, as usual, the need to increase profits has now overcome that.
As someone elsewhere has pointed out, supermarket carrier bag use may well have been dramatically cut, but sales of higher profit margin bin liners has similarly increased!
It seems a misplaced and very draconian measure to stop using carrier bags. They can be recycled in many ways :
Bin liners,
Charity Shops goods,
Organic farm goods,
muddy boots,
....
Of course that relies on us not re-using bags that have contained raw meat - oh but that should be separately wrapped anyway. So total re-use.
Richard
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Pandora

Posts: 2784
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Posted At: 10/11/2008 13:16:50
Give yourself free access to all bacteria.
You do not throw your fridge away each time it's had raw meat in it. Just wash it down.
I try to concern myself with things more exciting than the state of my carrier bags.
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CeeCee

Posts: 14664
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Posted At: 10/11/2008 18:08:26
My mother still washes out plastic bags used for holding items, such as meat, cheese etc. in her fridge. Given the cheapness of these plastic bags, usually the ones the supermarket have put the meat in in the first place, I just wish she would stop doing it. She washes them out in the washing up water and then pegs them up to dry, ready for re-use. However, she never gets food poisoning.
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Silvermist

Posts: 4310
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Posted At: 09/01/2009 01:48:20
I used to do that CeeCee. I didn't have a clothes line, but the bags stuck beautifully to the kitchen tiles. Then I looked at them one day, and thought "why the heck am I wasting my time doing this?". Result - I just chuck used bags, even those zip type ones, if they are really messy. And life is simpler.
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Veronika

Posts: 17572
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Posted At: 09/01/2009 08:25:56
Supermarkets even mix the cooked and uncooked meets in bags, when they deliver. Cooked and uncooked should be kept separate if they go by the Health and Hygiene Laws.
V 
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Italian

Posts: 510
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Posted At: 09/01/2009 08:35:10
You want health hazard? There's a butcher's shop in the town where I live who displays a lot of his meat OUTSIDE the shop on trays - winter AND summer. The smell is vile when the weather's warm but it seems not to bother the crowds who queue up to buy the stuff. He must never have been reported - I'm not bothered as I wouldn't ever buy from him - so perhaps he's found a way round the H & S laws. Free joints to officials perhaps? Poor devils ...
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gloucester

Posts: 3790
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Posted At: 18/01/2009 20:56:52
It worries me that all Supermarkets, including now Morrisons, do not wrap raw meat anymore, but still insist on wrapping raw meat in clingwrapped trays. Frequently the blood oozes out from this inefficient sealing. I've never had a problem with Tesco - in fact it's quite a tussle sometimes getting teh food out of the packaging at all!
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Pandora

Posts: 2784
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Posted At: 18/01/2009 22:08:21
There is probably a Health Hazard in most things. You can 'worry' or you can 'enjoy'. Its up to you.
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danensis

Posts: 814
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Posted At: 19/01/2009 21:32:06
You want health hazard? There's a butcher's shop in the town where I live who displays a lot of his meat OUTSIDE the shop on trays - winter AND summer. The smell is vile when the weather's warm but it seems not to bother the crowds who queue up to buy the stuff. He must never have been reported - I'm not bothered as I wouldn't ever buy from him - so perhaps he's found a way round the H & S laws. Free joints to officials perhaps? Poor devils ...
As most meat sold in butchers shops has been dead for a couple of weeks or more, a few more hours isn't going to upset it, and its going to be cooked anyway. I was just telling my son about my old biology master. In his house they had a stewpot on the corner of the stove, and at the end of each meal they chucked what was left in the stewpot. Once a week they boiled it to get rid of the mould on the top. Whenever anyone came in from the cold, they'd have a nice hot plate of stew. They never got ill.
John
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Megluka

Posts: 1196
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Posted At: 20/01/2009 00:04:09
That does not surprise me. He probably created his own penicillin 
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Andyoptic

Posts: 3815
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Posted At: 20/01/2009 09:14:09
I asked an American restaurant once what the expression "fresh steaks" meant. I was told they were "freshly killed and hung for 21 days".... idiots.
Words I hate in English supermarkets:
Mild (Ugh!!)
Fresh
Farm
Home cooked
Natural
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Truebluelady

Posts: 7899
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Posted At: 12/03/2009 12:49:38
It doesn't ever happen to me - I'm a committed veggie! (some would say I should be committed - Ha ha!)

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Wee Mouse

Posts: 114
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Posted At: 02/05/2009 17:11:26
Paul, you summarise perfectly. Many of the people out there use the plastic bags to keep their houses clean and in good order. This keeps smells from their bins, etc. How does this type of government respond ? Punish , punish, punish , punish.
Calvanistic in the extreme and I am completely fed up with it.
A quick tip on how to get your recyling figures improved? When you wash stuff out (eg milk bottles) then do not let them drain well. Water adds enormously to the recyle weight and it is recyclable after all.
I wonder how many years in jail I could get for telling you that? Something under the anti terror laws I expect.
I have never washed any glass items before throwing them in the bottle bank, I am not wasting my hot water.
I still can not understand why they do not collect tins and aluminium cans any more, what a waste.
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